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NGVLA CSV Working group Kickoff telecon
Date: Tues 22 Jan 2019, 20 UT = 15 ET = 13 MT
Location: CV-ER230, SO-280
Audio Hub: 434-817-6283
CV: Todd, Jeff (missing: John H.)
Audio: Walter, Eric
SO: Joan, Vivek, Rob, Bryan, Rafael, Chris, Barry
Review charges to the group for 2019
PDF from Selina
Quoting: "The CSV-WG will play a critical role in the technical design of the ngVLA. The initial charge to the CSV-WG is as follows:"
Consult widely with the construction and commissioning communities of ALMA, VLBA, and the EVLA to provide advice to the ngVLA Project Office on CSV concerns.
Provide the ngVLA CSV concept. Prepare a preliminary CSV plan to guide the design of the facility and the commissioning approach.
Total billable hours allotted (250), ~20-25 per person
CSV Concept document (due March 30, 2019)
Must be consistent with other subsystems Concept documents
Current draft outline
CSV Preliminary Plan document (due October 30, 2019)
Provide further details on milestones, including requirements for initiating, and criteria for passing
Provide an estimate of the efforts and resources required, and the skeleton of a timeline
High priority tasks for completing Concept document
Identify additional statements in other Concept documents (Transition plan, etc.) that impact CSV
Example: my list from Operations Concept
in draft outline
Assign other Technical documents to specific group members to read (
full list from Kay
: ngVLA LO Reference and Timing:
; and Reference Design (Shillue)
Long Haul Fiber Workgroup Preliminary Report
: Independent Phase Cal System: Preliminary Requirements; and Reference Design (Erickson)
: Computing & Software: Preliminary Requirements; and Reference Design Architecture (Hiriart)
: Array Calibration: Priminary Requirements; and Preliminary Plan (Butler)
: Central Signal Processor: Preliminary Requirements, and Reference Design (Ojeda)
: Front End: Preliminary Requirements; and Reference Design (Grammar)
: Monitor & Control System: Hardware Technical Requirements; and Hardware System Design (Koski)
: Array Configuration: Preliminary Requirements; and Reference Design Description (Carilli)
: Transition concept (Chandler)
: Reference Observing Program (Wrobel)
: ngVLA Antenna: Optical Reference Design (Dunbar/Chalmers)
: ngVLA Antenna: Preliminary Technical Specifications; and Reference Design (Dunbar)
: ngVLA Short Baseline Array Antenna: Preliminary Technical Specifications; and Reference Design (Dunbar)
NGVLA Reference Design
(Selina, et al.)
Some documents available on Linux, but contact author for latest version
Identify important questions to ask of other subsystems that are not addressed in current documents
Example: will we use a tower or a satellite beacon (or both) for holography?
Coordinate with AIV Concept document to clarify interface (overlapping members: Kern, Dhawan, Hiriart)
Identify major concerns for AIV+CSV that will make our job difficult (and affect project schedule)
Demonstrating acceptable antenna performance after re-assembly at remote stations
Demonstrating that long baselines (> 40km) will work -- need to do this early in CSV, rather than later
Now til Feb 4: Read your document assignment and add comments to section 2 of
(or email them)
Week of Feb 4-8: I will convert outline to prose (any comments yet?). Will share for editing via Overleaf.
Feb 9 - 19: Review and comment on first draft
: monthly, propose same time and day-of-week (third Tuesday)
Feb 19: Discuss concerns with first draft, and what feedback to give to other Subsystems Concept doc authors
Mar 19: Identify final issues to fix in Concept doc, begin planning the next doc
Minutes (written by Todd)
Initial discussion: questioning of the scope of CSV vs. AIV and SRDP
Barry: AIV = antennas, and CSV = systems ?
Vivek: AIV should include stable fringes
Bryan: SRDP should be separate
Barry, Vivek: but we need SRDP for Early Science
Jeff: important that things like Observing sequence are specified (Todd: ALMA failed at this in many cases)
Jeff: important that AIV formally accepts the software, ahead of CSV (ALMA had CSV do the acceptance)
Todd: focus of CSV evolves from working with AIV team toward working with Operations team to insure that Early Science and SRDP are successful
Jeff: we write down the type of people we need
Antenna construction, and surface verification
Rob: there is a mold, and integration with backup structure happens on the plains
Barry: what about holography?
Todd: yes, particularly on the distant stations; cannot have a tower everywhere, so we either need celestial holography or satellite beacon holography
Bryan: celestial holography never worked on long VLB baselines, but there are 3 stations planned at each LBO site
Todd asked: will AIV test receiver package with each antenna first on the plains before that antenna is disassembled and moved to Long Arm station?
Rob: The plan is to only assemble antenna once, and receiver will be a large package tested prior to shipment to antenna
Todd: I worry about integration issues (wiring etc.) at remote stations
Barry: Experienced team will do the assembly at each remote station
Chris(?): Maybe we can have one antenna on the plains where receiver packages can be tested first?
Todd: sounds like a good idea to me
Todd asked Rafael: has computing thought about how it will support commissioning operations (like holography) at remote stations?
Barry: good fiber connection is essential to Long Arms, with that almost anything can be done
Jeff: Subarrays need to be early, with the capability of different software versions on different subarrays concurrently
Vivek: Should also have subarrays of people for specific goals, like outfitting of remote antennas
Jeff: What does the workday look like? maintenance and construction during daytime, and observing at night? will need operators
Walter: Simulators would be useful so that work on software needed later can get started early
Jeff: need to write down what kind of simulators we need (e.g., ALMA has an observing mode simulator, which takes SB and outputs the scan sequence)
All: we agreed we need a manual mode prior to SB operations (and Rafael has this in his plans)
Early Science issues
Joan: we need to link a date for start of early science, nominally Jan 1, 2028 (this was later discussed between Rob, Eric, Joan, Todd who agreed on Oct 1, 2028 with a Call ~6 months prior)
Todd: is there a group responsible for QA0?
Jeff: QA0 is not in Operations plan
Remember that observing time is guaranteed, not achieved rms
Based on Reference science doc, CSV should make a list of modes for ES (to be approved by Science) Don't wait for Science group
Rob: prioritization policy of project is that ES does not dictate deployment plan
Joan: resources for ES, how to attract external scientists early on?
Vivek: CSV group chooses which people to come help, to insure they are useful
Todd: this is in contrast to RSRO which began with a successful science proposal
Todd: postdocs hired for ngVLA will be essential, and perhaps external postdocs
Jeff: how do we make sure that postdocs with the necessary experience are available?
Todd will convert outline to prose during week of Feb 4-8, in overleaf
Rob: latex is allowed, and you can ask Chris Hales for the template (DONE)
next monthly telecons: Feb 19, Mar 19, agreed, check with Chris Hales to avoid conflict with semi-weekly Calibration group meetings on those dates (CONFIRMED)
first week of April: external review (CSV concept doc will be included in that)
2019-01-21 - 12:14
Sent by Kay on Jan 7, 2019
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